We in the UK belive in self-determination, and the prospect of the disunited kingdom breaking up into its constituent parts is a great disappointment to many of us. NHSreality was not in favour of Brexit, but now that it has happened and a small temporary majority has shown us how badly we need “rules” for referenda, we also need to acknowledge the likely break up of the UK. Referenda are opinion polls, and ancient Grecians in the home of democracy, argued against everyone being involved. Ireland and many others have taken note and changed their rules so that temporary opinions swayed by media cannot cause change without reaffermation after a period of time, and a substantial rather than a mere majority.
Wales is the poorest part of the UK, and has £9,391.00 revenue per capita, compared to Scotland £12,058, and that is 2.5% below the UK average. Spending is £13,698.00 and £14,,829 respectively, compared to a UK average of £13,196. Once the English Independants get a realisation of how much they subsidize the celtic fringes, could resentment arise? With an overspending and underproducing Wales getting free prescriptions, no wonder the WG cannot afford to offer proper “choice”, or independent second opinions. Scotland without its oil and both countries without their subsidies will not be affluent places, and the emigration of their youth, if thats what it becomes, could get worse. In an era of false information and dubious sources, an English backlash is also possible and a movement to separate England away form its percieved “ingrate” neighbours..
The idea that the Scots and the Welsh should have a trial period of governence without subsidy in the update letters at the end will appeal to many. Wales is the poorest so the hit will be hardest there,but the English do get a lot back: the smartest and most aspiring tend to leave and boost the labour market, enhancing England’s economy. It is self servingly logical to evict the Scots and Welsh from being joined to England for fiscal and legal purposes. But it would be of short term benefit compared to the gains in staying together. But then we did not listen on Brexit either..
Writing in The Sunday Times 24th Jan 2021 David Smith opines: England’s great river of cash keeps nations afloat
The tide has turned politically in favour of independence in Scotland but the economics remains firmly against it. As part of the UK, Scotland’s high levels of public spending are, in effect, subsidised and made possible by English taxpayers, particularly those in London and the southeast.
The picture for the UK, confirmed in figures from the Office for National Statistics, is that London, the southeast and the east of England are the big revenue generators.
In a normal year, they all run budget surpluses, while every other region and nation runs a deficit, in some cases a substantial deficit.
The Scottish government’s own figures, contained in its annual government expenditure and revenue Scotland exercise (Gers), tell the story. In 2019-20, the last fiscal year, public spending per head of population in Scotland was £14,829, 12.4 per cent above the UK average of £13,196.
In contrast, revenue raised in Scotland, including a so-called geographical share of North Sea oil (Scotland receives the oil that would fall within its notional share of the UK North Sea), is below the UK average. Scottish revenue per head in 2019-20 was £12,058, 2.5 per cent below the UK average of £12,367.
The difference between spending and revenues is borrowing, or the budget deficit, and even before the great explosion of borrowing in the current fiscal year as a result of the coronavirus crisis, Scotland had a budget deficit of more than £15bn.
Expressed as a percentage of gross domestic product, the Scottish deficit was 8.6 per cent, compared with 2.5 per cent for the UK as a whole; more than three times as big.
Supporters of independence say these figures bear no relation to what the state of the public finances would be for an independent Scotland, but it is hard to see why. To make its public finances manageable, Scotland would have to reduce public spending significantly or raise more in taxes. The Gers figures were used as the basis for the work of the Scottish Fiscal Commission, established by the SNP (Scottish National Party) administration.
For Wales and Northern Ireland, where the political picture is different in terms of support for breaking away from the rest of the UK, the economics is also against any such move.
Wales, the poorest part of the UK with the exception of northeast England, has lower public expenditure per head than Scotland, but also the lowest level of revenue per head in the UK.
In 2018-19, the latest year for which official figures are available, Welsh public spending per head was £13,698, 6.7 per cent above the UK average for that year. In contrast, revenue per head in Wales was £9,391, just 77 per cent of the UK average. An independent Wales would have an even bigger budget deficit per head than Scotland.
There is a similar picture for Northern Ireland. It combines the highest public spending per head in the UK — more than 15 per cent above the UK average — and low levels of revenue. Its budget deficit per head is the biggest of any part of the UK, according to ONS figures.
This raises an additional issue for Northern Ireland. Those who favour breaking away from the rest of the UK would want, not independence, but reunification; a united Ireland. But the Irish economy, less than a seventh of the size of the UK, could not take on the burden of high-spending Northern Ireland.
A united Ireland would require a very long engagement and, in all likelihood, a substantial dowry for Northern Ireland to take with it from the British government. There would have to be a big shift in the policy position of the Westminster parties for that to be possible.
Update 24th Jan 2021 (Pride is no reason to vote Nationalistically. Wales and Scotland are different geographically and demographically to England and results of the different health systems should not be compared until some time after this is over.) Letters to the Editor in the Times today. Union in crisis as voters call for referendums.
Sir, The poll published at the weekend should not be ignored (“Union in crisis as polls reveal voters want referendum on Scottish independence and united Ireland”, thetimes.co.uk, Jan 23) but neither should its suggested outcome be taken as inevitable. “Don’t know” groups are important. In Scotland, for example, much has been said about the performance of the first minister, compared with the prime minister, during the pandemic. It is true that her daily TV appearances have been generally well received by the Scottish public at large, the perception being that Scotland has fared better than England in dealing with the virus. The level of deaths in care homes and the much slower rollout of vaccination for the over-80s are but two aspects that might suggest otherwise. Then there is the matter of the financial support from the Treasury, for which little credit is given by the SNP government and which has had to be channelled via Holyrood rather than directly to the businesses concerned. Only when the health crisis has abated and once a thorough and coherent analysis of the SNP proposals can be made should any consideration be given to yet another “once in a generation” referendum.
Derek Stevenson
Edinburgh
Sir, Once Brexit had been “done” it was inevitable that independence and the creation of a new “Untied” Kingdom would re-emerge, and that Nicola Sturgeon would change the Braveheart battlecry of “once in a generation” to that of “democracy”. If, as is equally inevitable, there could be a material impact upon the whole of the UK, these reawakened principles of democracy must surely require that all British voters should have a chance to vote, not just those of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.
Timothy Young, QC
London WC2
Sir, Amid the commentary defending the UK there is no consideration that Boris Johnson now leads an English nationalist party. Add in population asymmetry and the UK fails as a polity, due to the dominance of a right-wing minority enabled by first past the post. Scotland must leave the UK as our potential can only be realised by having the type of governments that we vote for — good or bad.
Declan Jones
Glasgow
Sir, Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP should not be judged on the relatively low number of Covid-19 cases in Scotland compared with England. The geography and population spread of the two countries are quite different. Rather they should be judged on the vaccination rate. In this respect Boris Johnson is well ahead. I am sure that the inefficiency of the SNP in this relatively straightforward task will make the people of Scotland fully aware of their inability to run the country independently.
Alistair Forsyth
Aberlady, East Lothian
Update 31st Jan 2021: The Times letters shoow the start of the backlash.
As your report on the future of the UK noted: “England’s great river of cash keeps nations afloat” (News, last week). To solve the problem with Scotland, Westminster should enact a bill allowing a referendum on independence next year — and it should include a clause suspending the Barnett formula as it applies to Scotland for the intervening period.
This would ensure Scottish voters realised that the largesse doled out by the Scottish National Party (SNP) depends largely on English money.
Jane Haworth, Thames Ditton, Surrey
Full English
Many of us from across the political spectrum, not least Theresa May, warned that Brexit would lead to the break-up of the UK. Your polling reveals it is doing so. The response to it, however, fails to understand what is really happening.
It is England that is on the move, not Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. We English are seeking democracy and an end to the appalling elitist government that does us such harm. Mistakenly, we took it out on Brussels and not the real culprit: Westminster.
Now, to save our long tradition of liberty and self-government, we must finish the job. We must encourage our neighbours to go their own way and stop wasting valuable time on an increasingly punitive effort to “keep them”. Only then can we throttle the Lords, have fair elections to the Commons and free our country.
Anthony Barnett, co-founder, OpenDemocracy
Courtesy call
If the Scots and others are permitted to have an independence referendum, would it not be a courtesy to the English to seek their view as well? We subsidise these nations and see little in return. I would at least like the chance to express my opinion.
Brian Goodland, Winchester
Decrees of separation
Your coverage reminds us that Wales is the poorest part of the UK, barring northeast England. You miss the point that Wales is poor despite having been controlled by the UK government for centuries.
This feels like the psychological abuse in an unhappy marriage, with chronic bickering, put-downs and belittling. An amicable divorce would benefit both parties.
Dr Nia Owain Huws, Caernarfon, Gwynedd